The Inquisitive Mind

You hear a statement (could be from the pulpit or the pew) that doesn't ring true to you. A statement incongruent with the Faith you practice.
When is it proper to challenge and question(graciously of course) ? When is it proper to stay quiet?
Which circumstances dictate which response?


Please include any scripture you may think relevent in your postings


" Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good" 1 Thess 5:21


Honor all Men
Love the Brotherhood
Fear God
Honor the King

I guess I'll be the first to throw my glove in the arena on this one.

I think you have to look at where you are, your relationship with (or investment in) both the audience and the speaker, and whether it's a disagreement on practice or an issue of clear heresy--and maybe that's where it gets difficult. Certainly not everyone agrees on what's Gospel and what's up for discussion.

To start with, I'm assuming we're talking about a church meeting where one person does the speaking and everyone else is expected to benefit from what he's saying (regardless of whether he downloaded the sermon--perhaps a topic for another time). Obviously if we're talking small group-type meeting where speaking out is encouraged, there's not a whole lot of reason not to openly disagree (respectfully and in love, of course).

I believe if your pastor at your home church is saying things that you don't agree with, talk to him about what he's preaching. I think far too many people hear something they don't agree with (often things that aren't Biblically spelled out), so they give up on the church (or even on the Church). I don't think that I would shout him down from the pew, but maybe invite him out for coffee or schedule a meeting with him. Again, if it's an issue of whether you should have parking for expectant mothers, real wine vs. grape juice, tithing off the gross or the net, or not listening to secular music, maybe just let it go. You're never going to find a pastor you completely agree with, and maybe his different point of view will help you to become a more well-rounded christian.

If he's preaching that there's no such thing as hell, or that sin is ok, you should probably question whether or not you're in the right place.

I don't think I've been in services where the pastor has preached something completely unbiblical, but in that case I believe we have a responsibility at least to walk out, although shouting him down first might be appropriate. I'm not really sure. I guess what bothers me is when you have pastors spending a long time taking up the offering, talking about how the money goes towards spreading the gospel, when you know good and well it goes mostly for paying salaries and building buildings--as my brother would say: feeding the machine.

Finally, if you see some televangelist spouting drivel, then you know that you are in the U.S, and should probably just change the channel.

Perhaps if you hear a statement that doesn't ring true to you, it should cause you first to go back to examine your own beliefs. You don't learn much by talking, but you just might add to your knowledge by listening.

I know that none of you have ever changed your mind on things, but on occasion I have had the opportunity to eat my words. This has given me cause to be a little less judgmental of those with whom I disagree.

Take my brother’s statement for instance; he presumably agrees with George Orwell in that "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Though I once believed this way, I now agree with Dietrich Bonhoeffer in that “the command ‘thou shalt not kill’ and ‘love your enemy’ are given to obey.” I don't think that rough men doing violence makes the world a better place.

Perhaps I’m dredging up another issue, and I may have just acted completely against my first paragraph.

Hey Guys,
(this has to be quick) I intend to post my thoughts on the given topic in the next few days but in the interim....
I agree with both you guys to a point, that being said...
I think Jesus meant it when He said " love your enemies, do good to those who spitefully use you" , After that I lean towards putting them out of my misery. ( in a completely legal and military sense)
As of now I don't believe that the forementioned commandment prohibits my violent leanings. (Christ death on the cross / my arguement for capital punishment)
Soooo.. We might have to start another topic for this one.

I believe Dietrich Bonhoeffer made that statement in the early part of his life, for later on, he was an active participant in the German underground during Nazi rule. He was an employee of Germany's Military Intelligence Department, and as such made significant contributions to a group plotting to assassinate Hitler. When the plot was foiled, he was sent to prison and executed--because he violently fought against evil.

justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/133.html

I think you've grossly misrepresented Mr. Bonhoeffer and he's probably turning over in his shallow nazi grave, but regardless of his stance, it doesn't change Jesus' words. Maybe we should agree to disagree, and we'll talk about this when you retire.

So, in other news, I heard a woman preach (another topic for discussion) on a Sunday morning using some scripture to say something that it absolutely did not say. I even spoke with a missionary friend of mine who is a bible scholar and he agreed that the verse did not say what she said it said. It wasn't a bad message, it's just that the verse didn't say what she said it did. It was something about holding on to prophecy or your faith will be shipwrecked.

What is the deal with preachers writing messages and then finding scriptures that kind of back them up. Is it wrong of me to think that is backwards?

I keep thinking of the lyric David Crowder penned , " I will not keep Silent "
Eph 4:14-15 " That we should no longer be children , tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head-Christ-.
I'm with Matt when he says ' lets talk about these things' and with Josh when he cautions to be introspective and question my own beliefs , but I think the two go hand in hand. Josh mentioned the speaker who used a certain scripture to say something that the scripture obviously didn't say. In that instance its not a question of beliefs . Its a question of what do I do with this?
James 1:19 cautions us to be " slow to speak , swift to hear , slow to anger " I think that its all in the motive. Christianity is a Faith of action. That is to say , Christianity can not be walked out passively. Paul quoted secular poets in Acts 17:28 when he said " in Him we live move and have our being " Motive? Love ... It is Intrinsic to our Faith . Do we speak ? Yes , Slllooowwly.
Having said that , speaking the truth in love to an unsolicited audience is not easy . Oh well.....

Well, fortunately I've never been asked to take the offering, so the slight difference my Pastor and I have in regard to tithing haven't come to bear. And the difference really is slight. I have heard it preached at Harvest as a “New Testament Principle,” which I personally disagree with. However, another member of our teaching team kind of shied away from that last time he mentioned tithing in a message. So even that's not a hard and fast belief, I guess.

But this post isn't about tithing. Why am I able to disagree with my pastor about the nuts and bolts of tithing and still feel comfortable not only sitting under his teaching and authority, but leading worship at his church? Well, we're not disagreeing on whether or not one should give to God and God's work. We simply have a slight disagreement on what should motivate a person to do so. We're not disagreeing on the majors.

That really is the crux of this question. What is it that doesn't “ring true”? Is it a major tenet of our belief, such as the deity of Christ, his death and resurrection, etc., etc? If someone is speaking on a disputable matter, I'd be far less prone to argue. For instance, a good friend of mine is being mentored/discipled by someone I consider to be a great man of God. A couple of weeks ago, they asked me to hang around through one of their “sessions.” They were discussing the baptism in the holy spirit. The pastor was teaching my friend that, in order to be baptized in the holy spirit, there MUST be the evidence of tongues. I totally disagree with that belief. What did I do? I kept my mouth shut. I genuinely have the greatest respect for the pastor, and would never dishonor him by 1) arguing the point or 2) walking out (particularly when they were both honoring ME by allowing me to be there). I will also not tell my friend I believe differently, unless he asks, which he didn't. Why? Because it's really not that big of a deal (in my eyes) to believe one way or the other on that certain aspect of Christianity. Now, if he'd started telling my friend that Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead, but only rose in spirit, I can only hope I would have reacted differently.

Another friend of mine once told me that he and another guy were planning to have a “discussion” on once-save-always-saved. I asked him if he would even consider changing his mind on the matter. He said no. I asked him if his friend would consider the possibility of changing his mind on the matter. He said no. So I asked him what the point was of even discussing it. He couldn't give me a good answer. I think we have to ask ourself: are we arguing just to argue?

I guess where I'm going with this is, well, this: sure, if you're in, say, a church service, and the speaker is saying something you consider heretical or blasphemy, by all means, LEAVE! Shake the dust off your feet on the way out. If it's YOUR church, and it's your pastor...well, you might want to start looking for another place to worship. Would I make an appointment with him and graciously attempt to set him right? Only if I felt like it could be beneficial. Unfortunately, I would in most cases say it wouldn't be. (I'm a p.k. I know how they can be.)

However, if the point I disagree on is something minor, such as “Is the rapture (if there is one) pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib” I'd probably let it go.

I guess, for me, I'm not proud enough to say that there are many things even I know I'm 100% right about. Except those things that really, really matter. I'm pretty sure, when we get to heaven (and yes, heaven is one of those things that really, really matters), there will be a few thousand little things we'll look at and say, “Wow, I guess I didn't quite know as much about that as I thought.”

Okay,
So you spoke of " not wanting to dishonor the pastor" by arguing with him on what you believe to be a minor point. Being filled with the Holy Spirit without the evidence of tongues is an interesting thought ...I don't know what I believe about that. Would be interested to know Yours. Anyway... I too have the tendency to rate a point(and wether I'll say anything or not) on wether its heretical or not. But, Is it Dishonorable to question that pastor with a genuine desire for the truth? I'm not saying to that we need to voice our thoughts and questions all the time , every time; Just more than we do.
It is by the way, My Honor to be questioned and called to account by such an astute group of fellows as yourselves.
Maybe keeping quite is not as innocuous as we may think.
zach